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Killer in the family podcast
A true crime podcast exploring men who kill their families.
Killer in the family podcast
Episode 50 - The Fisher Family
What happens when a family is shattered by violence that leaves a husband and father on the run? Episode 50 of Killer in the Family marks a sombre milestone as we confront the harrowing story of the Fisher family.
On 10 April 2001 a family home in a street in Arizona exploded. Inside Mary Fisher and her two children Bobby and Brittney Fisher had died. They didn’t die in the explosion; however, they were killed by husband and father Robert Fisher. He then escaped and is still a wanted fugitive to this day.
This is the story of the Fisher Family.
Information and support
· Samaritans UK Contact Us | Samaritans
· National Domestic Violence Helpline UK 0808 2000 247
· Women’s Aid Home - Women's Aid
· National Domestic Abuse Helpline UK 0808 2000 247
· Mental health support USA Mental Health America | Homepage | Mental Health America
· Domestic abuse helpline USA 1.800.799.SAFE Domestic Violence Support | National Domestic Violence Hotline
References
Mary Jean Cooper Fisher (1962-2001) - Find a Grave Memorial
Brittney Jean Fisher (1988-2001) - Find a Grave Memorial
Robert William “Bobby” Fisher Jr. (1990-2001) - Find a Grave Memorial
Robert William Fisher - Wikipedia
Missing in Arizona Podcast Series – Apple Podcasts
Robert Fisher, The Fugitive Accused Of Blowing Up His Arizona Home
WANTED: Robert Fisher | Crime Junkie Podcast
True Crime Arizona Podcast - the Hunt for Robert Fisher https://youtu.be/bBFuIHd0dBI
Finding Robert Fisher documentary https://youtu.be/DmMdh6Jxxzo
Robert William Fisher | Murderpedia, the encyclopedia of murderers
Credits
Hosted and created by Clare Laxton @ladylaxton
Produced by: Clare Laxton
Killer in the family podcast (buzzsprout.com)
Music from Pixabay.
Killer in the family podcast is a total labour of love. If you'd like to support me please buy me a coffee or tea!
https://www.buymeacoffee.com/clarelaxton
Hi there and welcome to Killer in the Family podcast. I cannot believe we're at episode 50 already. Who would have thought it? This podcast has also hit nearly 14,000 downloads, which is just incredible. You know that my purpose here is to tell stories and create change, and just a huge thank you to everyone for your listens, shares, subscribes and downloads. It genuinely means the world. This week we saw the International Day for the Elimination of Violence Against Women on the 25th of November, and, at a time when women and children are being killed at the hands of their partners and fathers every single week, it's so important to commemorate these days and what they stand for. And Women's Aid actually released some new data this week on the National Emergency of Domestic Abuse, which said that women are over three times more likely to be killed by a current or ex-partner than for not wearing a seatbelt. So, with that sobering thought, please do check out Women's Aid via a link in the episode notes to find out how you can support and help. Together we can end the epidemic of femicide across the world Now. So let's get into this episode. Episode 50 of Killer in the Family podcast. This one is a big one team On the 10th of April 2001,.
Speaker 1:A family home in a street in Arizona exploded Inside. Mary Fisher and her two children, bobby and Brittany Fisher, had died. They didn't die in the explosion, however. They were killed by husband and father, robert Fisher. He then escaped and is still a wanted fugitive to this day. This is the story of the Fisher family. This one is definitely going to be a tough listen because it involves a perpetrator who is still on the run. He's still wanted to this day, so he's never faced justice. It's also quite a famous case and for this episode I have read lots of news articles, also watched a documentary hosted by Brianna Whitney called Finding Robert Fisher, as well as a few podcast episodes as well. There's a Crime Junkie episode about this case, a True Crime Arizona episode about the case, as well as a whole season of a podcast called Missing in Arizona, and the last one is a really deep dive into the case, if you want to find out more and the last one is a really deep dive into the case. If you want to find out more, I've linked to all the sources in the episode notes, as well as links to information and support if you need it.
Speaker 1:So let's start by talking about Mary Fisher, who was born Mary Jean Cooper to her parents on the 3rd of October 1962. She was 38 years old when she was killed by her husband. Mary was born in Chicago, illinois, and I genuinely couldn't find out loads about her childhood. I know she has a sister, as she was quoted in an article that I read, but apart from that there's just not much out there about her. And, on a side note, this has really been a frustrating case to research because so much out there is focused on Fisher, where he is, why he did what he did, and there is so little information about Mary and her two children and who they were and what they were like. I'm going to try and centre them as much as possible here. Mary has been described as a very loving person who is also dedicated to her Baptist faith. She's very close to her family and also she just couldn't wait to be a mum. When she was growing up she really wanted that loving family of her own. Now, at some point she must have moved to Arizona, because it was there, at a Baptist church social group, that she met Robert Fisher.
Speaker 1:Robert William Fisher was born on the 13th of April 1961 in Brooklyn, new York. He had two sisters and a very different childhood to the loving one that Mary grew up in. His parents, william and Jan, divorced when Fisher was 15 years old and he and his sisters moved to Arizona with their dad, william. Now, apparently, fisher's mother, jan, had left the marriage and the divorce was very contentious and the divorce was very contentious. Many reports state that his parents' divorce had a really long lasting impact on Fisher and he was very bitter about it and it sort of coloured how he spent his life and also how he viewed relationships.
Speaker 1:Now, after graduating from high school in Arizona, fisher joined the US Navy. Apparently, he tried to be part of the elite sea air and land team, or the SEALs as they're better known, but he didn't get in. After the Navy he worked as a firefighter but injured his back, so he had to change his career. He chose the medical field and worked in sort of various roles as something called a surgical catheter technician, a respiratory therapist and other roles as well. Now, when he killed his whole family, fisher was a surgical technician at the Mayo Clinic in Scottsdale, arizona. Now, you might have heard of the Mayo Clinic. I definitely have. It's a hospital but basically has more number one ranking specialisms than any other hospital in America. So it seems like a pretty prestigious place to work.
Speaker 1:Now, at this point, mary Ann Fisher lived in Scottsdale, arizona, which apparently is one of the fastest growing cities and housing markets in the US. They also welcomed a family into their lives, which is what Mary had always wanted. So Brittany Jean Fisher was born on the 27th of April 1988. She was just 12 years old when she was killed by her father. Brittany was an active member of the family's local church community and was described as a shining light at her father. Brittany was an active member of the family's local church community and was described as a shining light at her funeral. She was very clever and studious and played lots of sports as well as attending church with the rest of her family. The Fishers welcomed their second child on the 21st of September 1990. Robert William Fisher Jr, always the junior or Bobby to everyone, was just 10 years old when he was killed by his father. Like his sister, he was an active member of their church community but also loved like normal kid activities like drawing, and was apparently really close to his big sister too. And, as we know, all Mary wanted to be was a mum and her dad actually talked about how much she loved Brittany and Bobby. Quote Mary loved those kids so much. Brittany and Bobby loved the Lord and both kids were very spiritual. Mary also volunteered at the kids' school and she was a Girl Scout leader. So you know, know, really active in lots of her local community groups.
Speaker 1:In looking in the looking for robert fisher documentary there were loads of home videos of the fisher family and they just looked like a totally normal family in the 90s. There was a video of britney riding a bike with, like those stabiliser wheels, there's one with Fisher in the pool with Bobby and lots of videos of just normal family time, along with their black Labrador blue, though, it has to be said, there were lots of Fisher in the videos but not loads of Mary. Now, mary and Fisher were friends with local parents, laurie and Herb Greenbeck, and they spent a lot of time together as families as Laurie and Herb Greenbeck, and they spent a lot of time together as families as Laurie and Herb's daughter was the same age as Brittany and the girls spent loads of time together. Laurie told the Arizona True Crime podcast that the family saw each other a couple of times a week and would see each other at holidays like Christmas and Thanksgiving, as well as doing other things like going camping together. She also talked about how Fisher was quite the outdoorsman. He enjoyed hunting, fishing, quad biking as well as camping. And when Brittany and Bobby started to go to school, mary actually went to work for Laurie and Herb at their medical company and she was their office manager. Herb told the Finding Robert Fisher documentary that she was a great worker and they really enjoyed having her as part of the company. They were a completely normal family. Laurie and Herb Greenbeck said.
Speaker 1:Like many cases we've talked about on the podcast, where families seem totally normal and happy, the reality was not necessarily that in the Fisher family. Mary's friend Laurie talked about how controlling Fisher was and how Mary and the kids needed his permission to do everything. For example, if Brittany wanted to go to a friend's house, mary couldn't give her permission. Fisher had to. There's also the story of when Fisher actually turned the garden hose on Mary after she said something that he didn't like. There was another story about with how he was with the kids as well and apparently went out went out on a sort of weekend, sort of camping trip once and he was fishing in the boat with some friends and with Brittany and Bobby. He decided to teach the kids to swim, but he did it by just throwing them in the water and apparently they were just both really scared and screaming and that that just feels particularly cool to me. Uh, I I'm not an expert in how you learn to swim, but I'm pretty sure it's not just chucking kids in water. Another example of fish's controlling ways was that all the walls in the house they lived in had to be white and Mary couldn't hang anything on them, so it just looked really plain and bare.
Speaker 1:Now Fisher's mother told police later on in the investigation that she had been what she called a yes sir wife who didn't stand up to Fisher's father. She said that she saw similar dynamics in Fisher and Mary's marriage and said that she'd actually spoken to Mary about her concerns. Now, what Fisher's mum calls a yes sir dynamic may actually be a controlling and abusive dynamic, but I wonder how many other people might have spoken to Mary about being worried about her. Now, aside from his controlling behaviour with Mary and the kids, some people also talked about Fisher's apparent sort of bloodlust with hunting. As we've said, like many people in the state. Fisher enjoyed outdoor pursuits such as hunting and fishing, and I've read reports from some of his friends that once, when he killed a deer, he like smeared his face with its blood. They also said that he would take loads of photos of his hunting and when he was showing them to friends there were loads of photos of him like dismembering the animal, like abnormally lots of photos. And this just yeah, I do not enjoy that at all.
Speaker 1:Now, with Mary and Fisher's marriage not being as perfect and normal as everyone said it was, now it actually came out that in the late 1990s Fisher had an affair with a sex worker. Now some sources say it was a one-night thing, but others say affair. However long it went on. He definitely had a sexual relationship with another woman and it's said after this that he suffered with a urinary tract infection from that affair all night, which meant that he was not well and pulled away from Mary as he was afraid she would know something was wrong. Now it could have been a UTI urinary tract infection, or it could have been a sexually transmitted infection, an STI. Whatever it was, fisher sought treatment for it and then admitted the affair to Mary. She was clearly devastated but wanted to work on their marriage and they went to marriage counselling at their local church. In the Finding Robert Fisher documentary, herb Greenbeck their friends did say that he thought there was infidelity on both sides of the marriage, but I couldn't find any other sources that talked about an affair from Mary or any infidelity on both sides of the marriage, but I couldn't find any other sources that talked about an affair from Mary or any infidelity on her side.
Speaker 1:Now, in late 2000, fisher conducted another affair. After he visited a massage therapy for support with a massage therapist for support with his back injury. He again admitted this affair to Mary and she was devastated. Now at this point her reaction was different to the first time. She wasn't sure she wanted to continue with the marriage. Apparently, fisher went into the woods camping for a few days, threatened to take his own life unless Mary stayed with him. This is a common trait for coercive controlling men who use threats of suicide to control their partners.
Speaker 1:Now, on the Missing in Arizona podcast, john the host talked about the fact that he thought that at this point in their marriage Fisher had actually caught syphilis from his second affair and had passed it on to Mary. For those of you who don't know loads about syphilis. It's a pretty awful sexually transmitted infection and often has very little symptoms in its first stage, making it difficult to identify and treat. Now, I used to work in sexual health and know the devastation that syphilis can cause, and John's theory on the podcast was that Mary had realised that Fisher had passed an STI onto her and that was the final straw she wanted to leave him. Now I couldn't find the mention of syphilis anywhere else in other sources, but I want to include it here, as it could be the reason that Mary finally wanted to leave Fisher and get a divorce. To bolster this theory that Mary was coming to the realisation that she wanted to leave Fisher, herb Greenbeck told the documentary that Mary was trying to be more independent, hence getting the job at his company. She also once told Laurie Herb's wife that when Fisher wanted to go north camping with her, she wanted someone to go with her. She was afraid Fisher would do something to her. So clearly Mary was starting to see that maybe she wouldn't be safe with Fisher. It seemed that although many saw Robert Fisher as a typical church-going family man, he was anything but and actually had another side that was dark and devastating, and although many describe the Fishers as a normal, typical suburban family who had it all, they were really anything but Thank you.
Speaker 1:On the morning of the 10th of April 2001, 911 dispatchers in Scottsdale, arizona, started getting lots of calls about a house fire in a quiet cul-de-sac. Apparently there had been a loud explosion and now the house was on fire Before the firefighters arrived. Neighbours actually started turning their garden hoses on the flames to try and save the house, and anyone inside the house that had exploded and was on fire was that of the Fisher family. As soon as firefighters arrived and tackled the blaze and were able to get it under control, they saw that there were bodies dead in the house. One of the first police investigators on the scene was TJ Jiran, and he told the True Crime Arizona podcast that he immediately suspected that the bodies were a result of homicide rather than having been killed by the fire. He thought this because he could sort of tell that all the bodies had been in their bed sleeping when they died and wondered, if they were alive when the fire broke out, why they wouldn't be trying to run away and escape and therefore sort of be in a different place in the house.
Speaker 1:Now it did take a while for the police to determine who the bodies were. They eventually identified them as Mary Fisher, who was 38 years old, her daughter Brittany Fisher, who was 12 years old, and her son Bobby Fisher, who was 10 years old. They realised that Robert Fisher was missing and initially were sort of worried about what had happened to him. But Fisher quickly became a person of interest and on the 14th of April 2001, an arrest warrant was issued for him. But Fisher quickly became a person of interest and on the 14th of April 2001 an arrest warrant was issued for him After they'd spent more time investigating the house and the homicides. This is what police believe happened on that April night and early morning in 2001.
Speaker 1:So we know that earlier on in the evening of the 9th of April, fisher took Brittany to her school for an award ceremony. She'd won an award for her studies and you know being brilliant at school. But apparently he made her leave before she could collect the certificate. For Brittany's teachers that was the last time they would ever see her. That night Mary also took Bobby out to like a sort of gun slash self-defence event. So both parents were out with both children Around 10 o'clock on the night of the 9th of April, neighbours heard Fisher and Mary fighting. It's thought that they were probably fighting about Fisher's infidelity and Mary wanting to leave the marriage and maybe even wanting a divorce.
Speaker 1:Now there is CCTV, which is the last captured image, of Fisher at an ATM at 10.42, taking out $280. The ATM was about a mile from the family home and Mary's Toyota 4Runner is in the background of the CCTV image rather than Fisher's truck, and police actually believed that by this time, 10.42, fisher had already killed his family. They believed that he killed Mary when she was asleep in their master bed by slitting her throat and then shooting her in the head. In the documentary and other podcasts they called this the FU shot. It was clearly overkill as she was already dead and didn't need to be shot in the head and, as we've spoken about before, overkill is often associated with intimate partner homicide as the controlling partner feels such rage and anger towards their partner. Fisher killed Brittany and Bobby in their beds while they were sleeping. He slit both their throats as well. According to reports, this is going to be a tough listen. He had practically decapitated his family when he killed them. Now, after killing his whole family.
Speaker 1:Fisher continued with his plan and this was a plan. He didn't snap or see red. He disconnected a gas line, which obviously meant that gas was now leaking into the house. He then poured some sort of flammable liquid around the house and lit a candle in the house, and he estimated that that was giving himself about 10 hours before the house exploded. And he apparently did go back to the house after he drew the cash out at the ATM. He apparently did go back to the house after he drew the cash out at the atm.
Speaker 1:The missing in arizona podcast spoke to a few witnesses who saw both cars mary's and fisher's outside the house as late as 5 am on the 10th of april. So john of that podcast believed that fisher went home after he drew out the cash and then left the house again early in the morning in Mary's car before the house exploded. The one thing that police were left with a question about was where was Robert Fisher? So so now, as their friends, family and local community absolutely reeled from what had happened to mary, britney and bobby, the police were on the hunt for fisher. As we said, on the 14th of april 2001, an arrest, an arrest warrant, was issued for him and there was a huge manhunt underway for him.
Speaker 1:Now, before we talk about the search for Fisher, I think it's important to talk about why he did what he did. Well, it won't surprise you that, I believe, because Mary wanted to end the marriage and divorce Fisher. That went against his very controlling nature and he therefore planned to kill both her and his children. For Mary to want a divorce, fisher just could not deal with that and, as we talked about at the start of the episode, fisher's parents divorced had a huge impact on him and it's thought that he didn't want that for his children. And I think it was more than that, though. He had created his family in his own image and he didn't want anything ruining that. We've talked on the pod before about how family annihilators often see their family, especially their children, as extensions of themselves and therefore feel totally entitled to decide how to end their lives. I genuinely believe that Fisher felt he was losing control over his family, with Mary wanting to leave him because of the infidelity, and therefore planned a way to kill them all and also to escape and therefore escape justice.
Speaker 1:So back to Arizona in April 2001. So on the 20th of April, police actually found Fisher's car well, mary's car, the Toyota 4Runner in Tonto National Forest near a place called Young in Arizona. The National Forest was about 80 miles away from Scottsdale, so it wouldn't have taken Fisher long to drive there. Now, when they found the car, fisher was nowhere to be seen. They did, however, find Blue, the dog, just sitting next to the car. He was hungry, but not in like a terrible way, like he hadn't eaten for 10 days. And I just this is one aspect of the case that I just genuinely don't understand. Why was Blue there? If Fisher escaped with him, why didn't he just take him with him? If Fisher took his own life, why didn't Blue follow him and try and get help? He's a Labrador and he's very loyal. I have a Labrador myself, alan, and know how loyal they are. I just, yeah, I don't. I really don't understand this bit at all and we'll we'll talk about it a bit later on. Now.
Speaker 1:The search for Fisher continued, and the police and FBI received hundreds of tips and potential sightings over the next two decades. Now, in June 2002, the FBI put Fisher on their top 10 most wanted list, with a reward of $100,000 for information that led to his capture. The FBI most wanted poster said, quote Fisher is physically fit and an avid outdoorsman, hunter and fisherman. Fisher is physically fit and an avid outdoorsman, hunter and fisherman. He has a noticeable gold crown on his upper left, first bisque-pid tooth. He may walk with an exaggerated erect posture and his chest puts push it out due to lower back injury. Fisher is known to chew tobacco heavily. He has ties to New Mexico and Florida.
Speaker 1:Fisher is believed to be in possession of several weapons, including a high-powered rifle. It also said, quote Robert William Fisher is wanted for allegedly killing his wife and two children and then blowing up the house in which they all lived in Scottsdale, arizona, in April 2001. Should be considered armed and extremely dangerous. Also, like other family annihilators we've talked about on the podcast, fisher was featured on America's Most Wanted and the Hunt with John Walsh, so there was lots of information out there trying to find him and although all of this publicity and the hard work of the police and FBI meant that they did receive lots of tips, fisher has never been found and is still a fugitive.
Speaker 1:Now there are three main theories on what happened to Fisher. Firstly, some people think that because he'd threatened to take his own life before and because he had such a small amount of money with him that he he took his own life in one of the many caves in the national forest and his body has just never been found. However, there were vast searches of the national forest and the caves near where the car was found, so this theory possibly is one of the least likely ones. The next theory is that Fisher is still alive, that he escaped from Tonto National Forest and escaped to create a new life, and he's still alive today. John from the Missing in Arizona podcast says, quote I think Robert Fisher is alive, I think he escaped, and I think that is a very common belief amongst many investigators involved in the case.
Speaker 1:Now, there's a couple of reasons why people think this. One is that Fisher's car, or Mary's car, was found really close to the Fort Apache Indian Reservation, which he could have escaped onto. Now I believe that reservations police themselves. Therefore, it might not have been searched by Scottsdale PD or the FBI when they were looking for Fisher initially. Secondly, some people think that Fisher was picked up by someone. Secondly, some people think that Fisher was picked up by someone and this takes us back to Blue the dog and why he was just there and why he was just left. Someone picked Fisher up and the dog wasn't able to come. However, herb Greenbeck, a friend of the Fishers, believed that Fishers had a motorbike, which is why he left the dog, and Herb told the documentary Finding Robert Fisher that the weekend before he killed his family, fisher and Herb were camping for the weekend and they ended up in a small town called Rye, which is about 70 miles away from Scottsdale. Apparently they got talking to this guy in a motorbike about and Fisher was asking loads of questions like how long it took him to get to Rye, which roads he took and what were on the roads, and apparently there were loads of country roads in the area that Fisher could have ridden on and not been spotted by anyone.
Speaker 1:Now, whatever the actual escape mechanism, the theory is that Fisher did escape and is still alive now, and it is probably one of the most popular theories out there. Considering it was the early 2000s, there probably wasn't as much surveillance or there definitely weren't smartphones. It could have been pretty easy to start a new life with a new name, new name. Now there is also the theory that Fisher did escape and was alive and went to live under a totally new identity but is now dead. But you know, in 2024 Fisher would be 63, so not that old, so he still could have died under assumed identity, but again, this isn't the most likely theory.
Speaker 1:Now, whatever happened to Fisher, one thing is sure he has never faced justice for what he did to his wife and two children. He has never been held accountable for the three lives he took in cold blood because he couldn't deal with the mistakes he made and he felt entitled to take their lives, and it's that that makes me so angry about this case. He tried to hide what he did. He tried to cover up the murders he committed with a huge fire, which could have injured or killed other people, by the way and then he likely just went off to start a new life and forget about the three lives that he took. Before we finish, let's remember Mary Fisher, a loving mother, great friend and well-loved member of her local community. Brittany Fisher, just 12 years old, who was an active Girl Scout, very studious, who had received an award for her school work just hours before she was killed. And Bobby Fisher, just 10 years old, much loved member of his school and church community. This episode is dedicated to them, to memories of who they were and the love and joy they brought to people around them. We remember you.
Speaker 1:This has been Killer in the Family podcast, written and produced by me, claire Laxton. I'll be back next week with a new episode, so please subscribe, wherever you get your podcasts. Don't forget to send me any comments or questions to my insta at killerinthefamilypod, or through a text via a link in the episode notes. Do let me know any stories you'd like me to cover as well. Also, don't forget that you can buy me a coffee if you like the podcast and help support it's running. The link is in the episode notes. Until then, I've been Claire Laxton. This is Killer in the Family podcast. Until next time, take care, thank you, thank you.
